SOMEbody doesn't like this war! [duplicate]

marco [for imc collective], 21.03.2007 05:17

SOMEbody doesn't like this war!
by Johnny Autonmous, 19.03.2007 20:00
A well coordinated attack on an Army recruiting station leaves the public speechless and the cops confused!

[125 responses...]

An angry mob, chanting slogans and lighting up the night sky make a statement against the USA war in Iraq.



Duplicate story to:

 http://mke.indymedia.org/en/2007/03/207013.shtml

(for shorter download times...)

Everyone knew this was coming eventually. 21.03.2007 - 07:09 we all knew this was coming, and it's a wake up call. we needed this. now we need to get out of iraq. squirrel.> *sigh* 21.03.2007 - 07:39 Hey right wing morons - my grandfather didn't fight in World War II so that we can all become unquestioning sheep. My father wasn't in the Navy so that we could all just sit back and mindlessly eat the spoonfed crap the government hands out. They served so that people CAN voice their opinions and protest. I guess conservative brains haven't evolved to understand that point yet. Your president should be in jail. The vice president should be shot for treason (outing a CIA officer anyone?). This administration has actually led me to sympathize with the Pentagon and the CIA. WTF? Hey anarcho-kiddies - remember your actions also affect your comrades. The right wing knuckledraggers can't tell the difference between black bloc/crimestink anarchists and people who happen to just like wearing black hoodies. Stop being, well, so childish and start thinking about how your masturbatory ego boosting activities might HURT your movement, your comrades, etc. mke> an ounce of action for a gallon of theory 21.03.2007 - 09:40 I think you're way off base to assume no or little thought went in to this action and possible repurcussions. Just because different tactics than you agree with were chosen doesn't mean they were not thought about. Some people obviously thought it was long overdue to up the ante. Maybe the right-wingers can't tell the difference between the liberals and the anarchists, but last I checked we weren't out to get validated by those assholes anyway. What really gets me is that 650,000+ people have been killed because of this war already, and people are getting all twisted around over a couple of windows. Boo fucking hoo, your country has destroyed way more than that. dig ol bicks> mindless action 21.03.2007 - 10:51 Dig, Don't assume I'm not angry about the war either. I question the effectiveness of smashing windows. Did this stop the war? Now what? I personally think it's a dumb, meaningless tactic that accomplishes nothing. How uncreative. People smash up stuff when their football team wins too. People in Madison smash stuff up when it's Halloween. *YAWN* Violence is easy. The State chooses violence. (for the record I'm not a pacifist either...) I'm way off base? So when the meatheads on the right beat the hell out of some other activist/anarchist/innocent bystander what will you say then? Yeah, I don't care what the right wing thinks either but I do have to share my city with them. I'm sure the anarchist that threw the Haymarket bomb was tired of theory too. He also destroyed the 8 hour movement for decades, destroyed a much more vibrant anarchist movement than todays, destroyed the leadership of that movement... Upping the ante? Did the Weather Underground end the Vietnam War? That's the problem. I DON'T think people think these things through. It's just the same old fundamentalist "my dick is bigger than your dick" mentality. mke> The Army didn't start it. 21.03.2007 - 11:29 Wake up! Our elected representatives in Congress and the Whitehouse started this war, not the army. And many of the military's top leaders were against it from the start. They just take orders, and many of those top leaders quit rather than follow the idiotic orders they were receiving. If there was any thought behind this action it was poorly informed. Z4> throw another dime in the jukebox, baby 21.03.2007 - 11:45 I never said smashing a window or two was particularly effective on its own, or is going to stop the war, but then, neither are any of the things activists are engaging in these days. We're dealing with an imperialist war run by a government that doesn't give a fuck about public opinion. In such a situation, it seems to me that the only way to make them give a fuck is to make them realize more people are getting angry, and are willing to do more about it than march in the street. One window won't do anything, but if it keeps happening, and happens in other places and other institutions become targets... then maybe the movement would be getting somewhere. If we can learn anything from history its that governments aren't going to act until they feel threatened. As for the meatheads, I've always considered the threat of violence from the state, fascists and other political enemies to be par the course for my political views. You can't be opposed to the totality of the current order and not expect to come to blows with it and its allies, unless you just sit around with your thumb up your ass, and what does that accomplish? If the meatheads want to come pound on me, they're more than welcome to try. Did you seriously just compare a couple of windows to a thrown bomb? Get real. Property destruction has been a part of the anarchist toolbox in the US and Europe for decades, with a very recent resurgence all over the country in connection to the war. If anything, it has aided the movement- Seattle sure as hell got the word "anarchist" back in to the mainstream, and did more for the movement than any amount of self-promotion via traditional means could. I would be surprised if many people left the action Monday night feeling discouraged or disempowered. And I never said I was tired of theory- I love it- but all theory and no action is masturbation. And hey, look at this- suddenly people all over are talking about this shit, even us. Would we have been here otherwise? Maybe the individuals who broke those windows didn't think things through enough, but I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, judging from my experiences with anarchists in the past. dig ol bicks> freedom is slavery! war is peace! 21.03.2007 - 12:25 The army didn't start the war, but they did fight it and they should be ashamed of that. People in the military are extremely naive about the situation in the world, enough to be willing particiapants in it's continued subjugation. The nazis also claimed they were just following orders and i'm sure they thought just as soliders do now, that they were fighting for freedom. But can a state and it's sheep understand freedom in any other way than the domination and expansion of itself, in it's ablity to do whatever it desires while standing on top a mountain of corpses we call civilization? primal war> -- 21.03.2007 - 12:36 The message was simple. An epicenter for a racist, classist thing like Army Recruitment is not welcome in our community. kilgore trout> Yes, I did make that connection... 21.03.2007 - 13:09 Digs Yes, the Haymarket analogy was a little ridiculous. However, once the violence bottle is uncorked how do you stop it? You yourself talked about upping the ante - what comes after mere property damage? What happens when the 1000th smashed window doesn't stop the war? Was the Army Math Building bombing in the 1960's "upping the ante"? You may not want to get to that point, but I'll bet someone else would. There are wingnuts in every movement. I think it is a perfectly legitimate analogy. Workers in the decades up to Haymarket did cause property damage, and the state responded with violent force, so the movement responded with violent force, etc... I would also add that while you may be willing to have the meatheads come after you, what of others? Do you speak for all activists, anarchists, etc? Of course you aren't, I realize that. But again, it seems like too much emphasis is on "me". How am "I" self empowered. It's a syndrome of being American I would guess. Look, you seem like you are intelligent, and I would bet we probably would agree on more things than disagree. I'm adding in my two cents. I really disagree on methods like this as a tactic, especially since anarchism has such a marginal following to begin with. (coming from the guy who said the VP should be shot...) We could debate this endlessly, so I'll just say I disagree and leave it at that. C'est la vie. mke> BEWARE!!! BEWARE!!! BEWARE!!! 21.03.2007 - 14:45 Information about an organization or individual can be (and often is) obtained by placing an informer or infiltrator. This person may be a police officer, employee of a federal agency, someone who has been charged or convicted of criminal activity and has agreed to "help" instead of serve time, a member of an organization (YAF or College Republicans) or business, or anyone from the public. Once someone joins an organization for the purposes of gathering information, the line between data gathering and participation blurs. Two types of infiltrators result -- someone who is under "deep cover" and adapts to the lifestyle of the people they are infiltrating. These people may maintain their cover for many years, and an organization may never know who these people are. AGENTS "PROVOCATEUR" ARE MORE VISIBLE, BECAUSE THEY WILL DELIBERATELY ATTEMPT TO DISRUPT OR LEAD THE GROUP INTO ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES. They often become involved just as an event or crisis is occurring, and leave town or drop out after the organizing slows down. An agent may: Volunteer for tasks which provide access to important meetings and papers such as financial records, membership lists, minutes and confidential files. Not follow through or complete tasks, or else does them poorly despite an obvious ability to do good work. Cause problems for a group such as committing it to activities or expenses without following proper channels; urge a group to plan activities that divide group unity. Seem to create or be in the middle of personal or political differences that slow the work of the group. Seek the public spotlight, in the name of your group, and then make comments or present an image different from the rest of the group. Urge the use of violence or breaking the law, and provide information and resources to enable such ventures. Have no obvious source of income over a period of time, or have more money available than his or her job should pay. Charge other people with being agents, (a process called snitch-jackets), thereby diverting attention from him or herself, and draining the group's energy from other work. These are not the only signs, nor is a person who fits several of these categories necessarily an agent. Be extremely cautious and do not call another person an agent without having substantial evidence. Courts have consistently found that an individual who provides information, even if it is incriminating, to an informer has not had his or her Constitutional rights violated. This includes the use of tape recorders or electronic transmitters as well. Lawsuits in Los Angeles, Chicago and elsewhere (during the 1970’s and early 80’s), alleging infiltration of lawful political groups resulted in court orders limiting the use of police informers and infiltrators. (Some of these have since been overridden in different venues.) If you find evidence of surveillance Hold a meeting to discuss spying and harassment. Determine if any of your members have experienced any harassment or noticed any surveillance activities that appear to be directed at the organization's activities. Carefully record all the details of these and see if any patterns develop. Review past suspicious activities or difficulties in your group. Has/Have one or several people been involved in many of these events? List other possible "evidence" of infiltration. Develop an internal policy on how the group should respond to any possible surveillance or suspicious actions. Decide who should be the contact person(s), what information should be recorded, what process to follow during any event or demonstration if disruption tactics are used. Consider holding a public meeting to discuss spying in your community and around the country. Schedule a speaker or film discussing political surveillance. Good night and good luck :-) John Smith> BEWARE!!! BEWARE!!! BEWARE!!! 21.03.2007 - 14:59 Information about an organization or individual can be (and often is) obtained by placing an informer or infiltrator. This person may be a police officer, employee of a federal agency, someone who has been charged or convicted of criminal activity and has agreed to "help" instead of serve time, a member of an organization (YAF or College Republicans) or business, or anyone from the public. Once someone joins an organization for the purposes of gathering information, the line between data gathering and participation blurs. Two types of infiltrators result -- someone who is under "deep cover" and adapts to the lifestyle of the people they are infiltrating. These people may maintain their cover for many years, and an organization may never know who these people are. AGENTS "PROVOCATEUR" ARE MORE VISIBLE, BECAUSE THEY WILL DELIBERATELY ATTEMPT TO DISRUPT OR LEAD THE GROUP INTO ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES. They often become involved just as an event or crisis is occurring, and leave town or drop out after the organizing slows down. An agent may: Volunteer for tasks which provide access to important meetings and papers such as financial records, membership lists, minutes and confidential files. Not follow through or complete tasks, or else does them poorly despite an obvious ability to do good work. Cause problems for a group such as committing it to activities or expenses without following proper channels; urge a group to plan activities that divide group unity. Seem to create or be in the middle of personal or political differences that slow the work of the group. Seek the public spotlight, in the name of your group, and then make comments or present an image different from the rest of the group. Urge the use of violence or breaking the law, and provide information and resources to enable such ventures. Have no obvious source of income over a period of time, or have more money available than his or her job should pay. Charge other people with being agents, (a process called snitch-jackets), thereby diverting attention from him or herself, and draining the group's energy from other work. These are not the only signs, nor is a person who fits several of these categories necessarily an agent. Be extremely cautious and do not call another person an agent without having substantial evidence. Courts have consistently found that an individual who provides information, even if it is incriminating, to an informer has not had his or her Constitutional rights violated. This includes the use of tape recorders or electronic transmitters as well. Lawsuits in Los Angeles, Chicago and elsewhere (during the 1970’s and early 80’s), alleging infiltration of lawful political groups resulted in court orders limiting the use of police informers and infiltrators. (Some of these have since been overridden in different venues.) If you find evidence of surveillance Hold a meeting to discuss spying and harassment. Determine if any of your members have experienced any harassment or noticed any surveillance activities that appear to be directed at the organization's activities. Carefully record all the details of these and see if any patterns develop. Review past suspicious activities or difficulties in your group. Has/Have one or several people been involved in many of these events? List other possible "evidence" of infiltration. Develop an internal policy on how the group should respond to any possible surveillance or suspicious actions. Decide who should be the contact person(s), what information should be recorded, what process to follow during any event or demonstration if disruption tactics are used. Consider holding a public meeting to discuss spying in your community and around the country. Schedule a speaker or film discussing political surveillance. John Smith> . 21.03.2007 - 22:16 . . .> How do you stop an uncorked bottle? 22.03.2007 - 06:28 You stop violence by having a little self control. All this yammering on about a police state? Please. YOu have no idea what a true police state is. You've probably never had your phones tapped. You've probably never had black helicopters hovering over your head in a park. You've probably never had to confront someone following you on your lunch break. You love the drama. You love the maddness you've caused. And once you realize that, you'll realize that it's so much less about any war that is actually going on, and all your energy has been going to make an ass out of yourself in attempts to be "radical". I don't think you have any problems with infiltration. You may want to think twice about the articles in the paper the last few days. Maybe your silly little anarchist library meetings shouldn't be talked about by the arrestees. Someone said way early on in the commenting that it'll be a blast when you start turning on eachother, since you always do... Don't be retarded.> .... 22.03.2007 - 10:29 Dear Don't be retarded, I'm sorry, but I sense a bit of jealousy that anarchists are getting so much more attention than your boring ideology. "You stop violence by having a little self control. All this yammering on about a police state? Please. YOu have no idea what a true police state is. You've probably never had your phones tapped. You've probably never had black helicopters hovering over your head in a park. You've probably never had to confront someone following you on your lunch break." What makes you think we haven't faced repression by the state? The state and repression are very real to the anarchist community and always have been (especially as people who advocate a more direct and immediate approach to the problem of our society). I find it hard to believe that you know any of the people involved well enough to generally asses the level of repression we collectively face. I'm sure collectively the anarchist community in milwaukee has faced all of those things at different times. Most people doing effective organizing will. "You love the drama. You love the maddness you've caused. And once you realize that, you'll realize that it's so much less about any war that is actually going on, and all your energy has been going to make an ass out of yourself in attempts to be "radical"." It is precisely the reason that people are not satisfied with just the image and label of radical, that they acted on monday. "I don't think you have any problems with infiltration. You may want to think twice about the articles in the paper the last few days. Maybe your silly little anarchist library meetings shouldn't be talked about by the arrestees. Someone said way early on in the commenting that it'll be a blast when you start turning on eachother, since you always do... " The anarchist movement has been infiltrated a lot in the last couple years, especially green anarchist and environmentally focused anarchists. Acknowledging that there will be infiltration and being mindful of how to deal with it is part of any successful organizing against the state. a herd of kittens> uncork the bottle and let that fucker pour 22.03.2007 - 18:45 "You stop violence by having a little self control." Self-control sounds like a code word for "doing what the state wants and shutting the fuck up" to me, and you assume they'd want to "stop violence" in the first place. Why stop now when they're having so much fun? The bosses love it when dissenters are passive, stay in line and allow themselves to be completely controlled by their enemies. They don't like uncontrollable elements, or things that begin to actually hurt them one way or another. Why exercise "self-control" and play right in to the hands of our enemies? "You love the drama. You love the maddness you've caused. And once you realize that, you'll realize that it's so much less about any war that is actually going on, and all your energy has been going to make an ass out of yourself in attempts to be 'radical.'" Or maybe they just like to confront problems concisely and directly in the only terms that the state understands? You're right that this isn't about the war though... it's about this entire fucking mess of a society we've created, and I'm glad some individuals have the courage to stand up and fight back, on any level! "I don't think you have any problems with infiltration." Then you're completely ignorant of history. "You may want to think twice about the articles in the paper the last few days. Maybe your silly little anarchist library meetings shouldn't be talked about by the arrestees." Why should meetings completely open to the public, and in existence for the sake of discussion, be hidden as some sort of secret? The only regrettable thing is that those individuals said anything to the press. "Someone said way early on in the commenting that it'll be a blast when you start turning on eachother, since you always do..." Snitches and other low-life elements will no doubt be handled by those who their actions threaten. better retarded than passive> Too many morons commenting 22.03.2007 - 18:46 HELLO! DOES ANYONE REALIZE WINDOWS DON'T BLEED!! THIS ACTION WAS GREAT, A BREATH OF FRESH AIR AND EXPECTED WHEN A WAR OF CHOICE LASTS FOR FOUR YEARS! It was also NOT VIOLENT!! I am tired of hearing that we are supposed to send these guys to jail, or prison for supposedly being 'violent' for breaking a window, but support troops who loot, burn, torture, and yes--kill. I am tired of the boring political marches which have NOT worked EVER. Finally someone has the sense to do something. We can't all sit back and piss and moan about how bad other people who live in countries that start wars of economical conquest (such as the Russian in Afghanistan and the Germans in WWII) while we do the SAME thing. The big criticism of these guys is that they engaged in illegal action. THIS WAR IS ILLEGAL. Let's get a little perspective. We lionize the resistance of WWII, and we should do the same with these resisters. Fatman> Thank you for DOING something 22.03.2007 - 19:00 How about a little solidarity on this issue? So far I am hearing something along the lines of 'well these people don't reflect the anti-war movement' I hope YOU don't represent the anti-war movement. The kind of talk that the passive (yeas, PASSIVE) opposition to the war grunts out on a daily basis is enough to drive a person to enlist. How about a little solidarity on the issue. Solidarity- (basic definition) STICKING TOGETHER! Last time I checked you two groups both believe in the same goal: Iraq for Iraqis. How about watching each others backs? And seriously, passive folks: Your main fear should not be that you are being associated with the Active anti-war people. It should be theirs!!! Bye! J C> Another facist country 22.03.2007 - 19:37 So what do you guys think about Israel and it's conflicts with the Palestinians? Stu> Big Mama Speaks 22.03.2007 - 21:19 Dear JC - Re: Thank you for Doing Something Solidarity is our middle name. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------- Fatman - Re: Too Many Morons Commenting Right On! You get it. We love it. Windows? People? Soldiers? War? Crimes against Humanity? Military Recruiters? ------------------------------------------------- Stu - Another Fascist Country Do you really want to get us started? The dots are all connected, that's how we feel about it. Israel, like the U.S. is an imperialist fascist country. The Palenstinians, like all people, have a right to self determination and sovereignty. Big Mama Big Mama> Big Tony Working for Peace 23.03.2007 - 06:35 Hey Big Tony, You're great, but lose the cat. Big Mama Big Mama> Like all people... 23.03.2007 - 07:02 "The Palenstinians, like all people, have a right to self determination and sovereignty." Substitute "The Palestinians" for any other group of people, if you truly believe that statement. It could say, The Israelis, like all people, have a right to self determination and sovereignty. Or, you could be talking about Republicans. Or anarchists. Or right wing fascist Christians. Just because they don't agree with you, that doesn't automatically make them wrong. You don't agree with them. They think that you're completely out of your gourd. Do you really want to be closed minded like they are? You're entitled to your opinion, but if you want any sort of respect for your viewpoint, you're going to have to stop being so Stalin-esque in your rantings, as it only proves how fascist you truly are. n/a> TO BIG MAMA 23.03.2007 - 09:00 I gather that you must be a DOG person, huh? Big Tony Working For Peace> This was fucking stupid 23.03.2007 - 13:34 I have nothing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING against the smashing of windows at an army recruitment center. I think it can be used tactically and can add to the image that we are fed up. But only if done well! And this was not done, or organized well! A high level action such as this should be reserved for a small affinity group of people who you know and trust. I along with many other people who were not involved with this knew too much about it before it happened. EVERYONE involved with this had loose lips. This should not have been open to such a large crowd of people. Security culture was compromised and the people I blame are the lead or more experienced organziers. In radical communities it is your responibility to ensure that mistakes are not repeated due to an influx of new young radicals every 6-12 months. Also, who in their right minds would have an action such as this start so early? Obvious statement. This should have been done when either bars were closing and its noisy anyways, or just before dawn when people are too tired to bother to see whats up outside. There is no good excuse for doing it so early unless you wanted to be arrested. which if you were... don't run. Not only were people with little or no experience were placed at risk, this action is now threatening the entire riverwest radical community. You need to seriously evaluate your irresponsible actions. The only people this benefited is the cops and your own ego. AW> dear AW, 28.03.2007 - 19:03 Actions involving group revolt are inherently less isolating than small groups of people isolated action. Open revolt is very powerful. The media definitely knows that. A few angry individuals can easily be dismissed but a large group cannot. "this action is now threatening the entire riverwest radical community" Is a radical community really doing anything of value if it isn't constantly threatened by those in power? If you do nothing and work with them, you'll be co-opted into the system, and you won't be threatened. Individuals who live with integrity live in a state of war with the forces of domination, get some fucking integrity. The radical community will be targeted whether or not radical actions are isolated or not. Something like this had to happen sooner or later to show what the priorities are of people in the radical community, how to respond to state repression, etc. The recruiting center on oakland has been vandalized many times, but never has it ever received a fraction of this much attention kimmy> buy codeinum 14.08.2007 - 19:34 nice news thanks!Cipralex buy codeinum> e-mail:: posser@isof.net Homepage:: http://zithromax buy singulair 14.08.2007 - 20:21 nice news thanks!Tavor buy singulair> e-mail:: hf@joke.com Homepage:: http://tramadol fevarin 15.08.2007 - 12:27 oxazepam fevarin> e-mail:: posser@issof.net Homepage:: http://fluoxetine